A Reformed Response to a Reformed Baptist
In response to Reformed Baptist Brandon Wilkins’ review of his book on infant baptism, Jesus Loves the Little Children, Rev. Hyde here offers his own review of Wilkins’ review.
Again, it’s great to see level-headed and engaging conversation among those of us who genuinely disagree on very important things, yet are able and willing to recogize one another as brothers in the Lord. Over to you, Rev. Hyde:
A Response to Brandon T. Wilkins’ Review of Jesus Loves the Little Children: Why We Baptize Children
Oceanside United Reformed Church
I appreciate the invitation to respond to the review of my first book Jesus Loves the Little Children. As they say, any publicity is good publicity.
Let me begin by thanking Mr. Wilkins for noticing that this book is intended to be clear, concise, and conversational (vii). As he notes in his prefatory comments, the audience for which I wrote this book was not an academic one, but the average visitor to my congregation, as well as all Reformed congregations. In all my books I seek to write as a pastor to my sheep as well as those without a sheep pen. I am thankful Mr. Wilkins perceived this intent and did not take me to task too much!
What follows, then, is a brief response to and interaction with his review of my book, following his three areas of disagreement.
Hermeneutics
After stating his appreciation for my opening discussion of presuppositions and the Reformed concept of “good and necessary inference” (2-3) as defined by Westminster Confession I.6 but missing from the London Baptist Confession, Mr. Wilkins laments that I actually follow what he calls, “a positivist hermeneutic.” His evidence is that I say, “after the people of God placed the sign of the covenant upon their children for 2000 years, an explicit revoking of this practice is necessary if this practice is to end” (30). He goes on to say, “But how is this claim any different, hermeneutically-speaking, than the Baptist claim that an explicit command is necessary to baptize infants?” What Mr. Wilkins misses here is that my statement is a good and necessary consequence because a good and necessary consequence is not founded on “proof-texts” but the entire flow of redemptive history. What else are we to conclude from the facts of redemptive history that I mention on pages 34 and 38, that some aspects of the former things have been abolished, some things continue, but most especially that some things are re-interpreted:
- § Circumcision is no longer required of Gentile converts (Gal. 5); instead, both Jews and Gentiles who come to faith in Jesus Christ must be baptized (Acts 2).
- § Animal sacrifices are done away with because of Jesus’ final sacrifice (Heb. 10).
- § The kosher dietary laws no longer apply to the members of the Church because Jesus cleanses people from every tribe, tongue, language and nation and has declared all food good (Mark 7; Acts 10-11; 1 Tim. 4).
- § In the New Covenant we still worship at Mt. Zion, but it is now a heavenly mountain, a heavenly place (Heb. 12:22; Gal. 4:25-26; Rev. 3:12, 21:2, 10).
- § The Church still worships at a temple, but because of Christ’s once-for-all redemptive work, we as the Church of Jesus Christ are God’s temple (1 Cor. 3:16; 2 Cor. 6:16; Eph. 2:18-22; Rev. 3:12).
- § We still have a sacrificial altar upon which our Lord Jesus Christ was sacrificed, yet it is heavenly (Heb. 9:1-12, 21-24).
- § The Holy of holies that the priest alone was allowed to enter into once a year under the Old Covenant is now a heavenly place where all the redeemed may enter with boldness because Christ is our High Priest (Heb. 10:19-21).
The point of my argument is that we can infer from these revocations and re-interpretations that since placing the sign of the covenant on all those in the covenant community is never revoked, it continues under the new administration of the one covenant of grace.
Finally, under the rubric of hermeneutics Mr. Wilkins offers his assessment of our deeper assumptions about “how to relate the two motifs of covenant and eschatology during the church’s semi-eschatological existence.” The problem with his statement that the Baptist side gives eschatology precedence while the Reformed side gives covenant precedence, is that the Baptist position over-realizes what Mr. Wilkins admits is the church’s semi-eschatological state. The fact, then, that the church is semi-eschatological and hasn’t arrived at the consummation yet means that by nature the church is not a pure, elect-only church. Our practice of infant baptism and church discipline are practical expressions of the semi-eschatological reality of the covenant church in this age.
Baptism and Circumcision
The second area of disagreement Mr. Wilkins mentions is the relationship between circumcision and baptism. While agreeing that they are continuous as to their substance, he says, “I’m not persuaded that this continuity means that these signs can be ‘equated’ (pg. 19) or that one ‘replaces’ the other (pg. 26).” Not only is this the classic language of the Reformed confessions (Heidelberg Catechism, Q&A 74; Belgic Confession, art. 34) and the church fathers, such as Justin Martyr (Dialog with Trypho the Jew, ch. 18), but it also is borne out of the exegesis I offered of Colossians 2 (see below).
Mr. Wilkins goes on to assert that “in addition to continuity of substance” we somehow have to prove continuity of administration as well as “the Reformed argument seems to suggest that since there is continuity of substance between circumcision and baptism, then there is necessarily continuity of administration. This is ad hoc.” One need only read the paragraphs above concerning the good and necessary inference on infant baptism as well as the fact that the pure administration of circumcision meant administration to all males in the covenant community. This is not ad hoc, then, but the very essence of the sign itself.
Mr. Wilkins goes on to say circumcision “was a typological ordinance, appropriate to the church’s infantile existence (cf. Gal. 4:1-6)” that “pointed to Christ in a very specific way; through a promised geo-political land, through a promised physical lineage, through membership in a national entity, through the Mosaic Law.” There are several issues with this sentence. First, Mr. Wilkins seems to equate the administration of the covenant of grace through Abraham and Moses. Circumcision was given under Abraham, not Moses. The promises to Abraham were not merely about a geo-political land, since he had no land, a national entity, since there was no nation, only a family, nor was the Mosaic Law given under Abraham. In sum, this sentence was confusing to me. Second, as I say on pages 17-20, circumcision and baptism are both signs of the highest spiritual blessings in Jesus Christ. For Mr. Wilkins to say circumcision was about “a promised geo-political land, through a promised physical lineage, through membership in a national entity” totally distorts the presentation the Old Testament itself gives to circumcision (cf. the relevant verses on pp. 17-20).
As to his comment that “if they [circumcision/baptism] are not equalities, then it is imprudent to make assumptions about the administration of one from the administration of the other,” I would refer the reader to my exegesis of Colossians 2:11-12 (pp. 19-22), which Mr. Wilkins does not interact with, where I labored to show that baptism replacing circumcision is no mere “assumption,” but a biblical teaching.
Finally, Mr. Wilkins mentions briefly that he believes there is continuity between baptism and other Old Testament rites, which he explains, “rites that were not participated in merely on the basis of being born to covenant members.” He speaks of the Hebrews 10:22 drawing the connection between baptism and the consecration of the Levites for priestly service, which was given on the condition of a conscious act of willing service to God. This connection is interesting, although he does not offer support for it. Classic Reformed exegesis says this is an appeal to draw near to God in holy worship because we have been baptized with water (the sign) and received the cleansing of our souls (the thing signified). As well, I’m not sure how strong an argument it really is to say the priests really wanted to serve God and they had special washings, ergo the Baptist position is biblical, given that two of the first three priests, Nadab and Abihu, were wiped off the face of the earth for their pretended “service.” As well, it is strange he would use this as an analogy when God preserved a remnant of his covenant people, who only had circumcision, while he denounced the priests as abhorrent to God, with all their “conscientious” desire to serve God signified by washings (E.g., Zeph. 3:4).
The New Covenant and the Children of Believers
Basically, Mr. Wilkins would have us conclude that Peter’s language in Acts 2, “To you and to your offspring,” must be interpreted by Paul’s language in Galatians 3 as meaning, “To you and to Christ.” This is what Mr. Wilkins says: “Paul argues in Galatians 3:16 that this promise is fulfilled in Christ.” So if the “covenant family” language was no longer a New Covenant reality, why did Peter use it? He was not arguing with Judaizers about the Gospel and their insistence that it could come through physical rites, but he was addressing a Jewish crowd and used Old Testament language. The point is this: Mr. Wilkins would have us adopt an either/or exegesis, but what we learn from the entirety of the New Testament is that we need to read the covenant promises of Genesis, for example, with a both/and principle. Galatians interprets the Abrahamic language to refer to Christ, while other New Testament texts, such as Acts 2, lead us to see the multiformity of Scripture and say the offspring of believers are also recipients of the sign of the covenant. As an analogy, how should we interpret the Old Testament temple, as a type? What is the antitype? Well, Jesus calls his body the temple in John 2 (Cf. John 1:14), but Peter, Paul, and John call the church the temple (1 Peter 2; Eph. 2; Rev. 21), but yet, the book of Hebrews says the true temple of God is in heaven (Heb. 8-9). Which is it?
Next, Mr. Wilkins seeks to refute my language that passages such as Ephesians 6:1-4 and Colossians 3:20 mean that children of believers have a peculiar covenantal relationship to Christ and “belong to” Christ (42). He offers Romans 8:9 as a refutation: “Anyone who does not possess the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.” Yet this is a part of the problem of how we read Scripture. The covenant of grace is distinguished biblically (E.g., Rom. 2:28-29, 9:6) between those in it outwardly and those in it also inwardly. Put another way, all covenant members are in the broad circle of the covenant administration, but only the elect are in the narrow, concentric circle of those who posses the substance of the covenant. To say “children of believers belong to the Lord” is to say they belong to the people of God as a corporate community, which is not to say that they necessarily posses the Spirit and therefore belong to Jesus Christ in a saving way as Romans 8:9 says.
Mr. Wilkins then rattles off a list of issues under the heading of Jesus’ teaching about children. He says, “If children being brought to Jesus necessarily means that they should be baptized as infants, then why not baptize all infants everywhere (what in the text limits this promise to covenant children)”? What limits it is that those who brought their children belonged to the covenant people of God, Israel. Mr. Wilkins then asks, “Furthermore, why shouldn’t they participate in the Lord’s Supper”? The answer is that Reformed exegesis of texts such as 1 Corinthians 11 leads us to believe that only those who profess their faith in Christ may partake. He asks another question: “Why not baptize all sick people? They were also brought to Christ.” The answer is that with the children, Jesus explicitly said, “To such belong the kingdom of God.” Do we read this with the sick?
Finally, in response to my exegesis of Ephesians 6 and Colossians 3, Mr. Wilkins offers his understanding of the place of children, rooting his understanding not in the covenant of grace, but in the doctrines of the family as a creational institution and the well-meant offer of the Gospel. I think this is commendable and I agree with these two points. However, what Mr. Wilkins does not wrestle with is the fact that this is not how Paul roots the place of children. Paul explicitly makes the connection between children in the New Covenant and children in the Old Covenant by his reference and application of the fifth Commandment. I do not know what else he could have done. It’s as if he is saying, “Under the Old Covenant children were members of the covenant, in fact, God particularly addressed them in his holy Law to the holy people; now under the New Covenant they still belong and this commandment still applies to children of the church.”
In the end, I appreciated reading Mr. Wilkins’ review and was stimulated to think deeply about my assumptions, exegesis, and confessional commitment. As I mentioned in the opening, my purpose in writing the book was to explain the Reformed doctrine of infant baptism for a culture of people without knowledge of the Reformation. It is still my prayer that God would draw all peoples, whether unbelievers, backslidden Christians, burned-out evangelicals, and yes, Reformed Baptists, to the true church as expressed in the Reformed confessions, which includes infant baptism.




I had written a response, but Daniel has dealt with some of my concerns. I’m going to edit out a lot of it and post (tomorrow) some questions/concerns!
It is quite obvious that Brandon is concerned to raise certain questions or problematic elements about Daniel’s argument. I was left wondering, however, what alternative Brandon is left with in a number of his issues raised. At the heart of this issue, I believe, is Calvinistic theology versus Lutheran theology; that is to say, the Baptist looks at this issue in the same way a Lutheran looks at Soteriology – “what about my justification” – whereas the paedobaptist stresses the importance of God’s redemptive, re-creating grace offered to the world through the Spirit of Christ for his own glory.
Christ is reconstituting Israel around Himself, both Jews and Gentiles. The difference, however, in the new covenant community is that God’s redemptive grace extends “to all the ends of the earth” (Matt. 28; Acts 2) with the Gentiles now being engrafted into Israel, the church (Rom. 11). The church is the new humanity and Matthew 28 is the fulfillment of Gen. 1:26-28. A new humanity that excludes infants makes no sense at all, especially in light of biblical history. The Church, as the ‘new humanity’ represents visible family solidarity, it is a picture of the first truly universal church that existed in the time of Adam. God’s intention was that Adam, as prophet, priest, and king, should rule the earth with his godly offspring. The fall ruined that. But God’s grace (Gen. 3:15; Matt. 28) is restorative. Families really will worship Jehovah and Joshua 24 is the ideal for all families in the earth. Following from that it is important to note that Baptism initiates us into the community of Christ where we gain a new family; it is not just an expression of our individual faith.
Brandon, certainly implicitly, if not explicitly, downplays the significance of Israel in our understanding of the church (especially his interesting exegesis of Gal. 3:16 which reads far too much into the text IMO). The significance of Israel should not be underestimated in our theology, especially our sacramentology. Brandon posits, it seems, such a sharp discontinuity between the type of society that Israel was and the type of society that the Church is that his craedobaptism seems quite natural. Such a discontinuity is hard to maintain in light of the NT since the Church is a reconstitution of Israel around the Messiah, not a different type of society altogether. If Brandon is to speak of the ‘Israelness’ of the Church, it must be done at a highly metaphorical level.
The young (infant) children who were brought to Christ were obviously Israelites. They did not need to be baptized at that point because they already were children of the covenant. There is not a shred of evidence in the NT that the privileges of covenant children have been revoked. In fact, the opposite is the case. If children should not be baptized, then how can the kingdom of God belong to them? How can children belong to the kingdom apart from the sign of the kingdom? How can Paul describe children as holy (1 Cor. 7:14) if they are pagans? You see, the NT evidence makes much more sense if children belong to the church of God. To say that children are pagans while at the same time calling them “holy” and “kingdom members” makes absolutely no sense. Brandon asks why we should not baptize all sick people since they were brought to Christ. The issue is not so much who was brought to Christ as it is what Christ says of those brought to him. Furthermore, Christ’s blessing of infants is surely significant since “to bless” is a loaded concept in both the OT and NT. The question I have for Brandon is this: what does it mean for the kingdom of God to belong to infants if they are not covenant members?
Daniel picks up, rightly, that Christ does not declare that all sick people are members of the kingdom. He does declare, however, that the children belong to the kingdom.
Brandon appeals to Rom. 8:9. If children belong to Christ, the obvious teaching of Luke 18:16, then they must possess the “spirit of Christ” (Rom 8.9). This objection, however, has little force. First, it must be said, there is a sense in which the covenant community possesses the Spirit of Christ, even unbelievers – Heb 6:4 makes that clear. The Spirit of Christ is present in the church and in households. The Spirit is not just in us but among us! That does not mean, of course, that the Spirit of Christ has brought the child into vital union with Christ. But it does mean that children belong to Christ covenantally and do “share in the Spirit”.
Brandon speaks a bit about circumcision without actually spelling out how this buttresses his position, though I suspect he would argue along the distinctiveness of the new covenant – another debate for another time. I would be interested to hear Brandon’s covenantal argument for such a sharp dichotomy of change regarding the status of infants. We would both agree, of course, that circumcision was a ‘seal’ of the righteousness of faith (Romans 4:11), a text Brandon (conveniently??) omits from his review. What is interesting is that Abraham’s sons received a sign of the righteousness that comes by faith as infants. They were accounted as members of the church before they ever made the decision for themselves. Why does God do that? God is a family friend and as a family friend He looks at the children of His people differently. He regards them as ‘holy’, whilst He regards the children of unbelievers as ‘unclean’ (1 Corinthians 7:14).
The fact remains, Baptists are far more uncomfortable with the perspicuous language of Acts 2:39, which is a restatement and fulfillment of Genesis 17, than paedobaptists who rejoice in Peter’s promise. The larger context of Acts makes it plain that Peter is speaking to Jews (“to you and your children”) and to Gentiles (“and all who are far off”). Consider a Jew at Pentecost hearing this! He would have said, “of course this promise is to my child”. Imagine the outrage if they had been informed that their covenant children were no longer part of the covenant. And yet we read of no such debate.
Finally, I’ve always felt that infant baptism has strong connections to the teaching of adoption. God loves the children of Christian parents too much to leave them in limbo. Rather, he brings them into his household immediately and claims them for himself. Is this not the whole logic of the gospel? God takes the initiative on behalf of others that cannot. The focus for Baptists tends to be upon the action of the candidate for baptism. Baptism is something that we do as a means of expressing our faith towards God. For infant baptists the passivity of the person baptized is more prominent. Baptism is primarily God’s gracious action towards us, performed by His ministers. Only secondarily is it our response to Him.
Mark~
I think this is a very thorough and well thought through response. I do think your critique vis a vis Lutheranism is somewhat misplaced–I think the thing a Baptist position and a Lutheran position have very much in common is not an alternative view of justification and its relation to new life, but they share a lack of understanding of — or at least consistenly in treating — the thoroughly and richly redemptive-historical (or better, covenantal) view of God’s dealings with his people through all the ages. But with this in mind, I definitely agree that THIS seems a striking similarity of the Baptist and Lutheran positions over against the historic Reformed position. I think that’s why their language and approach feel a little more ‘existential’, so to speak.
I also think your comments about God as the ‘primary agent’ at work in baptism (and the Lord’s Supper, in fact) is a great way to look at it, which has always been very helpful for me in understanding and explaining the historic Reformed position. The sacraments are much more about God promising and claiming and working and bestowing the thing signified and sealed, than they are about our remembering and dedicating ourselves (or our children). The Lord claims our covenant children, and calls us to set them apart to him, looking to his favor and faithfulness. On a popular level, it seems that the feeling that in baptism WE are dedicating ourselves to God as much as (or more than) he is claiming us as his own is a lot of what makes people uneasy about infant baptism, since they can’t do anything or promise anything back to God at that point. Something similar might be said about the lack of frequency or even importance of the Lord’s Supper, since this sacrament, similar to baptism, is often seen to be more about our remembering and keeping and doing than about Christ’s feeding us and communing with us and strengthening us by his Spirit.
~Brannan
Anyone have any other thoughts?
Brannan, thanks and good point. I was speaking no so much about an alternative view of justification by more of an over-emphasis on MY justification to the exclusion of other doctrines! It’s just a fact I’ve noticed in dealing with Lutherans and Calvinists.
“by” should be “but more of an …” and my wife just pointed out that “no so much” should be “not so much”. I’ll blame my daughter for distracting me!
What is your real name pseudo-Thomas Goodwin? Who are you?
Mark Jones. I am writing my PhD thesis on Goodwin’s Christology at Leiden University. I am also a Pastor in the PCA at Faith Vancouver (Canada). I’m 27, have two kids, and my wife still loves me! Phil can fill you in on the rest, both good and bad!
In reference to Acts 2, if a man gives the advice: “Work hard, and enjoy the fruits of your labor, everyone of you, for to you is the abundance, and to your children, and to your heirs afar off, even to as many as work hard.” Is he advising that the children, as children, must work hard to enjoy the abundance?
I would like to take Daniel up on something he said and add to Brannon’s point on Gal. 3.16. Mr. Hyde said:
Galatians interprets the Abrahamic language to refer to Christ, while other New Testament texts, such as Acts 2, lead us to see the multiformity of Scripture and say the offspring of believers are also recipients of the sign of the covenant. As an analogy, how should we interpret the Old Testament temple, as a type? What is the antitype? Well, Jesus calls his body the temple in John 2 (Cf. John 1:14), but Peter, Paul, and John call the church the temple (1 Peter 2; Eph. 2; Rev. 21), but yet, the book of Hebrews says the true temple of God is in heaven (Heb. 8-9). Which is it? [from the 1st paragraph of the last section].
These comments do not seem to account for the complexity of the NT interpretation of the OT. I will actually start with Mr. Hyde’s analogy of the temple. He points us to 1st Peter 2, which on my reading teaches that Christ is the one living stone, but other stones, in connection with the Living Stone, are being built up into the temple of God and are offering spiritual sacrifices through Jesus Christ. I think, we have the one and the many here. The One Living Stone and the stones who are alive in connection with Christ, these are members of the New Covenant (see below). So of course the temple is Christ’s body, but we have become unified with Him, and therefore the church, the new covenant community, is also the temple of God (2 Cor. 6.16).
The same truth is taught in Galatians 3. Paul interprets Genesis 17 correctly, on the linguistic level, the noun sperma, is singular, referring to Christ. However, Paul also plays off of this term, and legitimately so, since the noun can also be understood as a collective (singular form, refers to a plural entity such as rice; grammarians call these mass nouns as opposed to count nouns). Gal. 3:29 says, “And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants (sperma), heirs according to promise.” The Gentile believers are legitimate descendants of Abraham, if they belong to Christ. The One and the Many cannot be any clearer. So, Paul’s argument cannot simply be reduced to Christ, for he sees extension of the term to those who belong to Christ, which he says clearly happens by faith in 3.2,5; 3.26.
The language is not applied to children of the covenant of grace qua children of the covenant. It is applied to those who have faith union with Christ under the new covenant (lest we forget that Paul is arguing over the role of the OC in redemptive-history in this section).
This brings me to Acts 2.38. Mr. Hyde argues that the Jews hearing this message would know to interpret this text according to the Abrahamic promise, children of the covenant receive the covenant sign, but this is Brannon’s point precisely. Who are the children of the covenant? Are they not those who belong to Jesus Christ, who have received the Spirit of God (Acts 2.38-39; Gal. 3.14)?
Furthermore, Acts 2:38-39 must be looked at more carefully. The language is not about families anymore. The language is about “each one of you.” Davide Cronkhite translates hekastos humon as “everyone of you,” but the text does not say this (David’s analogy actually fails on a couple of counts, for the promise is not salvation=abundance per se, but the Holy Spirit according to Acts 1.4-5). If it did, it would read pas humon. Rather the text uses particularizing language (ekastos + partitive genitive) “each one of you.” As to who the promise is for, if the Jews understood the first two items (them and their children), they would also know that “to all who are afar off” would refer to Gentiles (Eph. 2.11ff). Are the Gentiles on the same footing as the Jews and their children? The syntax of the texts makes no distinction between these three categories of people.
Furthermore, how does Mr. Hyde and others understand vs. 39, “All whom our God will call”? The correlative pronoun must be taken to describe all three classes of people just mentioned in the text. In other words, the promise is not simply dependent on one’s parents, but it depends on the call of God.
More could be said, but I had better stop. Also, has everyone read Stephen Wellum’s essay on this subject in the new book Believer’s Baptism? It is well worth everyone’s time, since Wellum is a baptist, who is carefully critiquing covenant theology, and showing how the system fails to deal adequately with the newness of the new covenant and the development of the Abrahamic covenant throughout redemptive history. I recommend it highly.
Blessings,
John
I just noticed that I might have said Brannon,where I should have said Brandon. My mistake.
John
John,
I’m sorry to say this, but Wellum’s essay is really not very good. He’s hardly going to refute hundreds of years of Reformed Covenant theology in an essay. I wasn’t fazed by a single argument. Plus, he erects straw-man after straw-man. I’m busy with a conference this week-end, but next week I’d like to respond to your contentions.
Blessings,
Mark
Mr. Goodwin,
Thank you for your thoughts on the issue of baptism and your interaction with my review. While, it is not my intention to offer a critique of your response- I have had my opportunity to make my case and am eager to end this discussion-, you did directly ask me some questions to which I owe you answers. You also made several comments about my review that seemed a little unfair IMO which I feel I need to address for clarity’s sake.
First, you began your response by faulting me for not advancing my own views. I’m not quite sure what to do with that comment; I was reviewing some else’s book. But even at that, I did attempt to outline very briefly my own views on a number of the issues that I raised (reappraisal of hermeneutics, NC revelation determines NC sacraments, free offer, etc). I accept your criticism that I did not do this in any detail, but under the circumstances this was unavoidable.
Second, you suggested that I held an individualistic view of salvation and/or baptism, and rounded this comment out at the end of your response by suggesting that Baptists are necessarily Zwinglian, emphasizing the human act over the divine in the sacraments. I readily grant to you that soteriology and sacramental reflection has degenerated in many parts of Baptist-dom into purely revivalistic paradigms, but I voiced my own concerns about this problem in my review. As to the issue of Zwinglianism, I subscribe to 2LCF which means that I reject Zwinglianism.
Re: Israel & NT Church . I found this paragraph to be over the top. I didn’t address in any detail my views on this subject (I heartily confess the unity of the Covenant of Grace in all ages). Truthfully, I was a bit taken back by your forthrightness in telling me (whom you have not met) and everyone else what I believe on this issue. The only reason I drudge this up is because I want to make it clear to those who may not know what Reformed Baptists believe that I *do not* regard Israel and the Church as radically disparate institutions in some kind of dispensationalist manner. Or was your point that paedobaptism is the only way to justify continuity between Israel and the NT Church?
Re: Jesus and the children. At no point in my review did I deny that those children brought to Christ were the children of Israelites. My question was what limits Jesus’ blessing merely to so-called covenant children? Nor did I suggest that any blessings have been revoked. Our disagreement is over how those blessings take concrete form for those who have not yet professed faith in the NC age.
Re: pagan children v. Christian children dualism that you spoke of, my own views as a Baptist simply do not fit into these categories, as I tried to suggest by my comments about the free offer of the gospel. God is zealous in offering the blessings of the Covenant of Grace to all peoples in this period of redemptive-history. While you suggest that I as a Baptist have a problem with Acts 2:39, it is precisely on this point that I would vigorously employ that text as well as Matthew 28 and others.
You ask “what does it mean for the kingdom of God to belong to infants if they are not covenant members?” per Luke 18:16. The language of the kingdom “belonging” to certain groups of people is used more broadly than the paedobaptist argument speaks of, and definitely to make points other than about covenant membership. Matthew 5:3/ Luke 6:20, and James 2:5 use this same language to describe the poor of this world. None of us would assume merely from this that every poor person is a member of the Covenant of Grace. I will *gladly* hear a thorough exegetical argument about children and covenant membership from these Gospel texts, but it will have to be exegetical; not a collection of word studies.
“How can children belong to the kingdom apart from the sign of the kingdom?” This is the argument that leads me to ask “why not give them the Lord’s Supper as well?” That Scripture forbids giving infants the Lord’s Supper (the other sign of the kingdom) seems to suggest that your question has overstated the concerns of the text.
As to Rom. 4:11 and your statement that I “conveniently” didn’t address this passage, I’m really note sure what to say to this. I did say that the substance of circumcision was Christ. In saying this I intended that it be understood as “Christ and all of his benefits” which I understand to include the imputed righteousness of Christ. I will leave my comments on this passage at this since I stated at the beginning that I am not offering a critique of your argument in this response.
Finally, our brother has asked if we have read Wellum’s article. Again, I thought your comments about this were a little unfair. Actually, after you evaluated my exegesis of Gal. 3:16 as “interesting” I wondered if you were familiar with Wellum’s article (and the English Baptist tradition’s critique of paedobaptism because Galatians 3-4 are pretty crucial to it). I have spent my fair share of time reading paedobaptist arguments, old and new (and I continue doing so), and Wellum raises issues which I have not seen addressed in paedobaptist treatises in any detail. I don’t agree with everything Wellum says either, but he still makes important contributions to the conversation. I trust that you can admit that he makes a cogent argument even if you don’t agree with his conclusions. I don’t think John M. or Dr. Wellum believe that this one article overturns hundreds of years of paedobaptist exegesis.
The purpose of this response has been twofold: 1) to address issues in Pastor Jones’ response that seemed to demonstrate a misunderstanding of the content of my review and 2) to answer his questions to the best of my capabilities.
No doubt, I do disagree with Pastor Jones, but I appreciate (truly I do) his desire to vindicate paedobaptism against the cavils of snarling Baptists such as myself. I believe that we can be both spirited and cordial in our disagreement. I have attempted to be both in my response to him.
May the Lord grant you great success at your conference this weekend, brother!
Peace in our Lord,
Brandon
ALSO, Thanks to Pastor Hyde for taking time out of his busy schedule to interact with my review!
I think something that must be kept in mind here is that it’s very likely ALL of us talking here fit neatly into NONE of the stereotypes of our respective positions/traditions. I shudder when I think of what ‘covenantal’ and ‘Reformed’ and ‘Baptist’ often mean out there today. I can say confidently, for example, that Brandon knows and preaches the gospel better than many a ‘covenantal Reformed’ pastor, and that Rev. Hyde is decidedly NOT well described by whatever comes up first in a Google search for “Reformed”. When we have certain criteria in play for what it means to be biblically faithful, it means that these two men are in so many ways much closer to one another than they are to many on the contemporary scene in their respective traditions.
I’m sure we’re all aware of these things, of course, but let’s actively and conscientiously give each other the benefit of the doubt — no, better, let’s think more highly of one another than we do of ourselves, and let’s be willing to listen afresh (and be surprized), even as we defend our scriptural convictions.
~Brannan
Mr. Jones,
I would appreciate very much your critique of Dr. Wellum’s article. In particular, I would like you to substantiate your charge that Dr. Wellum has “set up straw-man after straw-man.” This is a serious charge since in effect you are saying that he didn’t understand the position he is critiquing. I would be interested in your defense of this charge.
Furthermore, I do not see the need to say that an article “is really not very good” simply because it does not overturn hundreds of years of Reformed Covenant Theology. By that standard no essay is very good. The question one may want to ask of this essay, is, “does it advance the conversation between baptists and paedobaptists of the Reformed type”? I think Mr. Wilkins is right to point out that Wellum has brought some newer argumentation to the table, which is not ignorant of covenant theology, but rather attempting to show that the baptist position as actually more covenantal in the final analysis. This argument is different than that of Jewett and Malone, and I await at least a preliminary critique of it from you, since you have leveled some serious charges against it. Thanks.
Blessings,
John
Take it easy, John. This isn’t about sin, just scholarship.
Mark
Mr. Jones,
No one said this was a matter of sin, and this is all I will say about this issue.
If we are going to bring more light than heat in this thread, we must try to present the views of others fairly and give due where it is due. I was simply pointing out what Mr. Wilkins had already observed in your comment and that is your general dismissal out of hand to a recent part of the baptismal discussion.
I simply want to see your critique of this essay, which did not faze you.
John
John,
I’m not sure I’ll have adequate time to write a critique that will satisfy you. Between writing my thesis, several articles for various journals, and pastoring a church, I have little time for other work. I guess I’ll keep my mouth shut in future! But I do plan to respond to Brandon when I have time (perhaps tomorrow?).
BTW, I’m not sure that Wellum is, as you suggest, saying something different that Malone, Jewett, and Kingdon (or Coxe, for that matter). So it’s the case of modern-day Reformed Baptists hijacking covenant theology; a pretty interesting polemic, but one that does not satisfy me and perhaps I can explain why if I have the time.
Mark
Pastor,
Might I suggest that we simply call it quits with this discussion? I’m not sure what I said that needs responding to.
Brandon
That’s fine with me. Though, I think there was/is still plenty of room for further dialogue. But we’re both busy, I am sure.
Mark
Mr. Jones,
I will only add that Wellum does not hijack covenant theology in his argument. He actually dismisses the language of the one covenant of grace. He affirms that God has had one plan of redemption, but he believes that the language of one covenant of grace flattens the covenants and does not allow for progress under the NC.
I realize you are busy, and I apologize for my harsh tone, but it does not seem that you have read the article, or at least you have not read it thoroughly. I could be wrong, but I will cease badgering you for the time being
.
Blessings,
John
John,
I’ve read the article (twice). The language of the one covenant of grace does not necessarily flatten the diversity of the various administrations; Owen and Cocceius have dealt with this at length in their Works. Progress under the NC has always been affirmed by Reformed covenant theologians. The issue, however, is also about ecclesiology, not just soteriology. Wellum argues that we (paedobaptists) are not sufficiently Christological in our covenant theology and, for my own part, I find that unbelievable! If you read Owen’s theologoumena, which Wellum doesn’t deal with (I believe), you’ll see what I’m talking about. And what I find interesting is that the best Baptist apologist in the 17thC, Nehemiah Coxe, recommended Owen’s work on the New Covenant because he could not do any better!
Blessings,
mark
Wow! I missed a lot while I was away driving my fiance and future daughter across country. Well. Great discussion fellahs. Let’s do a follow up on a future post. I think Pastor Mark has a review of Wellum or something coming up.
While not having read many of these documents, it stkes me that the attitude between the two camps is someone differing. One is clearly more harsh and unreceptive of the other.
That said, it is interesting to read again something that Rev Hyde selluded to in his initial response above. So as to get it correct, the quot is as follows, “The covenant of grace is distinguished biblically (E.g., Rom. 2:28-29, 9:6) between those in it outwardly and those in it also inwardly. Put another way, all covenant members are in the broad circle of the covenant administration, but only the elect are in the narrow, concentric circle of those who posses the substance of the covenant. To say “children of believers belong to the Lord” is to say they belong to the people of God as a corporate community, which is not to say that they necessarily posses the Spirit and therefore belong to Jesus Christ in a saving way as Romans 8:9 says.” As is regularly the case, a peado-baptist fails to recognize the merely symbolic nature of their covenantal position. Sure, can a Biblical argument be made for it: Yes! It is solidly waterproof, well no if the Word is dealt with directly and contextually. The best that can be said is that the infant practice is symbol and carries no soteriological meaning. If one looks at it from a Baptistic viewpoint, it is really nothing more than the non-Biblical evangelical practice of baby dedication.
While sounding very inmature, even with Abraham and the founding of the covenant, faith preceeded the covenantal establishment, with the practice of circumcision following even after that.
While not having read many of these documents, it stkes me that the attitude between the two camps is someone differing. One is clearly more harsh and unreceptive of the other.
That said, it is interesting to read again something that Rev Hyde selluded to in his initial response above. So as to get it correct, the quot is as follows, “The covenant of grace is distinguished biblically (E.g., Rom. 2:28-29, 9:6) between those in it outwardly and those in it also inwardly. Put another way, all covenant members are in the broad circle of the covenant administration, but only the elect are in the narrow, concentric circle of those who posses the substance of the covenant. To say “children of believers belong to the Lord” is to say they belong to the people of God as a corporate community, which is not to say that they necessarily posses the Spirit and therefore belong to Jesus Christ in a saving way as Romans 8:9 says.” As is regularly the case, a peado-baptist fails to recognize the merely symbolic nature of their covenantal position. Sure, can a Biblical argument be made for it: Yes! Is it solidly waterproof, well no if the Word is dealt with directly and contextually. The best that can be said is that the infant practice is symbol and carries no soteriological meaning. If one looks at it from a Baptistic viewpoint, it is really nothing more than the non-Biblical evangelical practice of baby dedication.
While sounding very inmature, even with Abraham and the founding of the covenant, faith preceeded the covenantal establishment, with the practice of circumcision following even after that.
Laus Deo~
I understand what you’re saying, but I think that the biblical language is actually the other way around when it comes to speaking of being ‘in’ the covenant of grace–it is synonymous with being ‘in Christ’. Those who are baptized are baptized into Christ’s death and resurrection, into the forgiveness of sins and cleansing from sin; in other words, according to biblical language, saying we are baptized into the covenant of grace is virtually synonymous with saying we are baptized into union with Christ. Rev Hyde is using the more technical categories of ‘internal/external’, however, in order to account for those who turn out to be false members of Christ and his church (the tares, the goats, etc.). The Bible, though, is almost always speaking in the internal sense–those who end up being ‘in’ in a merely external way are those who have spurned and trampled on the truth of this covenantal union and communion through not truly embracing these realities by faith (Heb 4, 6, etc.).
For those who reject Christ and his covenant people, then, only after the fact can we say that ‘they went out from us because they were not of us’–not of us in truth, but only in profession.
Do you see what I’m getting at? Hyde makes the internal/external distinction, but that shouldn’t obscure the fact that the biblical authors are almost always speaking ‘internally’–then the internal/external question comes in only in light of those who reject Christ and his benefits rather than embrace him by faith. So making the internal/external distinction is no different than drawing a distinction between being truly united to Christ in the covenant of grace by faith, versus being falsely so-called.
Hope this helps clear things up,
~B
Genesis 17–those not circumcised are cut off from the covenant. Are those not baptised with sacramental (God is doing it,not us) water also cut off? From which of the covenantS?